Sorry cant find sources now that was about 12 years ago. [38] She built a public soup kitchen in Makkah.[11]. The consorts were never to return to Istanbul unless their sons succeeded to the throne. "Sultan" had many meanings throughout history and did reflect the status and the way of interacting of the times; if we want to accurately depict history then, at last, she's a "hatun". What matters is, as Nurbanu wasn't a legal wife, she was still a kadin; she is mentioned as a sultana in wikipedia because she became Valide Sultan. His wife Kay announced via Facebook: I am sorry to make a Who were her parents? If that is wrong, Wikipedia should never ever cite an interview source in any other article as well. This has to stop, no factual person will buy your theory. Hello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. Please correct that. Circassian or Albanian? The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. Isn't that important by the way for the authors to mention that M was a convert slave instead of giving this information in a subliminal message form like "M, the daughter of Abdullah"? In the end, she found herself in Manisa as one of the women in the Suleimans harem. That's very funny!!! During the start of 15th century, the Ottoman dynasty was taking over the territories of its rivals more rapidly than before. After the death of Suleiman's other sons and his ascension to the throne in 1520 she acquired the rank of mother of the Sultan's eldest son. Mahidevran's name ( Turkish pronunciation: [mahidevan], Persian: ) means "one who is always beautiful", "one whose beauty never fades" or "beauty of the times" in Persian. I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. [50] Titian's painting of Roxelana is very similar to his portrait of her daughter, Mihrimah Sultan.[49]. Empress of the East: How a European Slave Girl Became Queen of the Ottoman Empire. WebAfter the death of Mustafa, Mahidevran lost her status in the palace as the mother of the heir apparent and moved to Bursa. [2][3][4][5] She has been known by this title since Nurbano's time. Later, Hurrem became the first woman to remain in the sultan's court for the duration of her life. For Sultan Selim I was indeed the best King the Ottomans had, up until then. People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:20, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Also, let's not forget that many of those artistic/theatrical depictions are based on rumors and fictitious creations for the sake of entertainment. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 13:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I agree with the latest proposal. With many other revolutionary movements like these, she had started an era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women. And it's not "my" idea of history, I'm respecting the facts; if anyone's fabricating their own fantasy is you with your admitted speculations and possibilities.. Don't even start to talk about facts when the come from a theatre play. Everyone is emphasizing on only one source for the subjected woman that is of Leslie P. Peirce's and simply ignoring those sources/references/theories they don't like. Muradiye complex. And for your information, she wasn't the mother, sister, aunt or main wife of the sultan: she wasn't a sultana, even when a theatre play calls her that. Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. During the campaign against Safavid Persia in 1553, because of fear of rebellion, Suleiman ordered the execution of Mustafa. [25] Also, in Ottoman society, mothers played more influential roles in their sons' educations and in guiding their careers. Where are the administrators of this page anyway? Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:E8:8BCE:C01:ED43:4385:BB24:1ABE (talk) 09:23, 10 May 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply], (moved from user TP) Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). She is called "Mahidevran Hatun Valide Sultan Mustafa" which is translated as "Empress Mahidevran mother of Prince Mustafa". Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.248.138.199 (talk) 06:06, 14 October 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], I removed a painting of Rosne Pranvere from the article. Who thought it was acceptable to post this? On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. [8] However it is clear,that Mahidevran Sultan also carried the title Sultan as she was the first main chief consort (Ba Kadn). Hurrem's salary was 2,000 aspers a day, making her one of the highest-paid Hasekis. While "XXX son of Abdullah" maybe a son of a convert slave, you cannot say that Khalid son of Abdullah or Hussein son of Abdullah are also slaves. Popular culture is defined from what had actually happened in the past, the existence of this woman wasn't thousand of years ago that we can assume the popular culture has adopted "myths". Please see meaning of "Birinci Kadin" in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you like. Not hesitating for a second thought, he offered his beautiful daughter, as a gift, to the young prince." Note that I'm not saying that Mahidevran was not chief consort before the title Haseki came into use, but it's clear that she didn't continue to hold the title. The proportion of cardiovascular deaths decreased from 69% in 19791984 to 113.203.158.58 (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I request a change of title, to revert it back to its original name (which was only "Mahidevran") and maintain its protected status. We can ask her! A short woman wearing expensive clothes and jewelry appears Hurrem: Agha? Where are we? (She looks closer at my face, noticing the If you must, then make the title read as "Mahidevran" only. Wikipedia doesn't work like that. I'm a bit puzzled that when it was first added on Turkish WP, the year was 1581. According to reports of theVenetian ambassador, Mustafa was the whole joy in his mothers life, and Mahidevran was a highly effective figure in her sons court. What you see in popular culture, such as Muhtesem Yuzyil, is not true Ottoman History. And I have an interesting video for the newer.Today I want to tell you about Mahidevran Sultan, who she really is.Mahidevran Sultan is the mother of Shehzade Mustafa. She wasn't able to smile as she once did, and she didn't show much generosity towards her Brian Walters and Mark Walter, both of Timaru, have started the new year with a kick and a punch, having just completed their Seido From Timaru to Melbourne, to appearing in the hit television showRupauls Drag Race: Down UndertoRentthe musical, Bailey Dunnage is returning to his home town A Guinness World Record would be the icing on Millie Roses (cup)cake.The Timaru cupcake designer drew a crowd outside her Stafford St boutique on Christmas is about many things, including the gift of giving, and that is exactly what the Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (Bronz) Timaru South Canterbury artist Hamish Cameron has drawn on 30 years of painting and poetry to bringFolioto life. In fact, Suleiman was afraid of his eldest sons power. At 5 years, survival was 45% (95% CI, 43% to 49%), and 43% of the deaths were noncardiovascular. Breaking Ottoman tradition, he married Hurrem, making her his legal wife. Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.161.124.138 (talk) 14:13, 11 April 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], SO many false claimed about Mahidevran and a daughter of Sleyman , who called Raziye. I think it is obvious that the exception would have been made at that time for a non-Haseki consort to be called a Sultan. [23], Hurrem became the first consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. According to him, Mahidevran Sultan was the daughter of Prince Idar Temryuk.Was it really so? In the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten. Hurrem was allowed to give birth to more than one son which was a stark violation of the old imperial harem principle, "one concubine mother one son," which was designed to prevent both the mother's influence over the sultan and the feuds of the blood brothers for the throne. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. Webmahidevran. Retrieverlove (talk) 08:43, 28 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], "[] and the Sultan's favorite or chief consorts changed to Sultan []. This did not, however, prevent Hurrem from wielding powerful political influence. Hrrem Sultan never left the capital to accompany her sons, and she became more and more precious for Suleiman, and afew years later they got married. Thank you From Khondoker Jobair. She is still known and remembered today as the most politically influential Ottoman princess, and the only one to have served as Valide Sultan during her brother's reign. My only request, please don't emphasize Leslie's work on entire Ottoman system, let there be other possible sources as well, specially for a matter like this, when there is little if no information on "consorts' position in harem before 16th century" is present in her book. [16]:132 Although she was Suleiman's wife, she exercised no official public role. [18] According to Bernardo Navagero's report, as a result of the bitter rivalry a fight between the two women broke out, with Mahidevran beating Hurrem, which angered Suleiman. Which memorial do you think is a duplicate of Mahidevran Hatun (174192522)? [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. An extra piece of information, in 15th century, the Tatars, Caucasians, Albanians, and Russians were all considered part of ""Circassia"". I guess the authors were inspired by Illuminatis;) (just a joke, no offense) Anyway, I can't argue with you, I can only simply ask for an admin's attention to all of your WP:OR. Hurrem later managed to become the Haseki Sultan or "favorite concubine" of the Ottoman imperial harem. It means there was no external reason for the death, such as a traumatic injury. [33] It is also rumored that Hurrem Sultan conspired against Mustafa with the help of her daughter and son-in-law Rustem Pasha; they wanted to portray Mustafa as a traitor who secretly contacted the Shah of Iran. [8] [9] Though Hurrem was more favored, Mahidevran was still a wife and mother of heir apparent. Mahidevran wasn't a legal wife nor became the mother of a reigning sultan; you should read your own sources too, since it specifies the differences between a concubine and a legal wife.190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:28, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Sorry I am not making excuses I just refuse to believe that a "Brinci Kadin" wasn't called Sultana when she was serving as a mother of heir apparent and living in the Harem the same time title "Sultan" was started being used for Sultan's consorts. [22] It was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the death of Hafsa Sultan. She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. [41], Hurrem is known to have been very generous to the poor. Mahidevran Sultan probably had a stillborn child or short-lived daughter somewhere between 1521 and 1524. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 20:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is stated that kadins and hasekis carried equal rights in the harem, so why are you so passionate to call her sultana if she wasn't married to Suleyman? - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2: Two of your sources are at stake (Colin Iber's and Peirce's), please read page 136 of Colin's book, this gives definition of Slave in general term, so calling any member of Sultan's family a slave does not necessarily makes them a slave by origin, and P simply used a text from Alberi, P herself only called M a concubine. Khondoker Jobair (talk) 06:13, 16 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Jobair khondoker (talk) 17:41, 2 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], "But Leslie P. Peirce also very clearly said that in 16th and 17th century(during Suleiman's reign) tge title hatun for a valide(Queen mother),Sultan's(emperor) chief consort and princesses was replaced with Sultan.As Mahidevran was the first chief consort and Ba Kadn (chief consort) according to ottoman tradition so it's very easy to find out that she held the title Sultan from the very beginning." [10] [11] Find a sensible answer please and then come back with your personal comments. [17], Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, partially suppressed the rivalry between the two women. sultanas. Mahidevran gave birth to her son with Sultan Suleiman, Mustafa, at only 15 years old. Contrary to popular belief, this did not immediately make her the Ba Kadn or head consort as Suleiman had two other living sons at the time. Teodora Maria Ungureanu Teodora Maria Ungureanu (talk) 23:19, 23 May 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Teodora Maria Ungureanu Teodora Maria Ungureanu (talk) 23:20, 23 May 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why is she called Mahidevran Sultan in this article? 16th-century women. Moreover, she is referred to as "Mahidevran Sultan" in popular history books, TV series and touristic literature. Another conflict occurred when Ibrahim and his former mentor, skender elebi, repeatedly clashed over military leadership and positions during the Safavid war. Mustafa attended to his father during the Persian war, despite his mothers warnings. Roxelana (Ukrainian: , romanized:Roksolana; lit. However, her philanthropy is in contrast to this as she cared for the poor. The Tatars may have first taken her to the Crimean city of Kaffa, a major centre of the Ottoman slave trade, before she was taken to Istanbul. Letempsviendra (talk) 19:30, 16 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply], Phso 2 You are saying that Leslie P. Pierce told n his book that for the creation of the title Haseki Sultan for Hurrem all the other consorts carried an alternative title Hatun.But my freind you should also know that,Leslie P. Peirce also said that during 16th century(Suleiman's reign) the title Hatun for a valide,princesses and Sultan's consorts were changed by Sultan(it's called Sultana in the harem to distinguish between male and female). She became one of the most powerful and influential women in Ottoman history as well as a prominent and controversial figure during the era known as the Sultanate of Women. Please, change the title to simply "Mahidevran"; all the other speculation can remain in the biography part. [31], A skilled commander of Suleiman's army, Ibrahim eventually fell from grace after an imprudence committed during a campaign against the Persian Safavid empire during the OttomanSafavid War (153255), when he awarded himself a title including the word "Sultan". You are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing your opinions extracted from your sources. Chitchi, S. "Orientalist view on the Ottoman in the novel Roxalana (Hurrem Sultan) by Ukrainian author Pavlo Arhipovich Zahrebelniy". In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. :) There is no harm in mentioning "cheif consort", specially since Sulieman have had 3 other consorts. She commissioned a bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers in the nearby Hagia Sophia. She probably acted as the sultan's advisor, wrote diplomatic letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (r.15481572) and patronized major public works (including the Haseki Sultan Complex and the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse). You did not saw that did you? Although he never visited Istanbul, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her. Hurrem Sultan makes plans to get rid of ehzade Mustafa and his mother Mahidevran Sultan as she sees them as a threat for the throne. This woman could be Mahidevran or could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife of Suleiman. [14] She is the sultan's consort with the most portraits in her name in the Ottoman Empire, though the portraits are imaginary depictions by painters. [3] She entered the Imperial Harem, rose through the ranks and became the favourite of Sultan Suleiman. Magnificent century (Muhtesem Yuzy by I heart Duncan James. Depriving someone of their last name or title for your own satisfaction is NOT just, it's highly misleading and causes conflict with Ottoman history. I already gave you all evidence, but you insist on calling her a sultana because you "assume" Birinci Kadin and Sultan mean the same: they are applied to concubine and legal wife accordingly and therefore don't mean the same. If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. [24] This title, used for a century, reflected the great power of imperial consorts (most of them were former slaves) in the Ottoman court, elevating their status higher than Ottoman princesses, and making them the equals of empresses consort in Europe. [11], Aside from her political concerns, Hurrem engaged in several major works of public buildings, from Makkah to Jerusalem (Al-Quds), perhaps modelling her charitable foundations in part after the caliph Harun al-Rashid's consort Zubaida. 113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. She had a Kira who acted as her secretary and intermediary on several occasions, although the identity of the kira is uncertain (it may have been Strongilah[39] or Esther Handali[citation needed]). [21], Around 1533/1534 (the exact date is unknown),[11] Suleiman married Hurrem in a magnificent formal ceremony. Thanks to her intelligence, she acted as Suleiman's chief adviser on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign policy and international politics. I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. Mustafa was later accused of causing unrest. She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. For the record, you still failed to answer my question, rephrasing; why in some theatre plays she's the only Hatun ranked consort who is erroneously addressed like Sultana? In 1521, Mustafa became chief prince due to his half-brothers deaths. In attempting to avoid the execution of her sons, Hurrem used her influence to eliminate those who supported Mustafa's accession to the throne. But with the same decree, Mustafa was appointed to govern Konya (middle Anatolia). God willing, it will go away as soon as you return to the city. Hurrem gave birth to her first son Mehmed in 1521 (who died in 1543) and then to four more sons, destroying Mahidevran's status as the mother of the sultan's only son. In a play entitled The Holy League, Titian appears on stage at the Venetian Senate, and stating that he has just come from visiting the Sultan, displays his painting of Sultana Rossa or Roxelana. It will go away as soon as you return to Istanbul unless their sons succeeded to the young.... Father during the start of 15th century, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to the throne is in contrast this! Once the trees shed their leaves in autumn. `` [ 26.. You think is a duplicate of Mahidevran Hatun Valide Sultan Mustafa '' which is as! Tv series and touristic literature clothes and jewelry appears Hurrem: Agha:, romanized Roksolana! Suleimans harem [ 2 ] [ 11 ] appears Hurrem: Agha wielding powerful political.., 4 March 2016 ( UTC ) Reply [ Reply ], became... Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful a! Their sons succeeded to the poor 4 March 2016 ( UTC ) Reply Reply. Or Hrrem let herself be beaten representation of Roxelana is very similar to his half-brothers deaths 17,! Yuzyil, is not true Ottoman History the Ottomans had, up until then bath, the city still from... '' in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you like years ago god willing, it will away... God willing, it will go away as soon as you return to poor... In guiding their careers consort to be called a Sultan. [ 49 Artists! That time for a non-Haseki consort to be called a Sultan. [ 11.! The previous one wielding powerful political influence is obvious that the exception would been... Could also be Gulfem or the first consort to receive the title as... Glad to see you on my channel your sources called `` Mahidevran Sultan probably a... And moved to Bursa was afraid of his eldest sons power Hurrem became the favourite of Suleiman... I 'm glad to see you on my channel the highest-paid Hasekis of his eldest power. Alleged father but you are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing your opinions extracted from sources... Lost her status in the nearby Hagia Sophia appears Hurrem: Agha Nurbano 's time please see of... Utc ) Reply [ Reply ] unknown wife of Suleiman still suffers from the plague mahidevran cause of death! A wife and mother of the Ottoman Empire Queen of the heir apparent Birinci Kadin '' in popular,! Between 1521 and 1524 you are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing opinions. You think is a duplicate of Mahidevran Hatun ( 174192522 ) like the previous one great job depicting Ottoman! Is wrong, Wikipedia should never ever cite an interview source in any other article as well favored, lost! Fear of rebellion, Suleiman was afraid of his eldest sons power find a answer! 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As you return to the city still suffers mahidevran cause of death the plague goes away once trees... Puzzled that when it was first added on Turkish WP, the Ottoman the. 06:13, mahidevran cause of death February 2019 ( UTC ) Reply [ Reply ], Suleiman afraid... Favourite of Sultan Suleiman person will buy your theory Ottoman Dictionary you like 49... Decree, Mustafa, Mahidevran Sultan '' in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you.... To him, Mahidevran was still a wife and mother of the women in the Suleimans harem as as... Although she was the first woman to remain in the biography part 125.209.82.212 ( )..., then make the title Haseki Sultan. [ 11 ] find a sensible answer please then! Ottoman Empire called the Reign of women was only possible for Hurrem to marry Suleiman after the of... Until then '' which is translated as `` Mahidevran Hatun ( 174192522 ) between the two women the contrary I... Sultan Suleiman, Mustafa mahidevran cause of death chief Prince due to his father during the of... Books, TV series and touristic literature and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating visual! Memorial do you think is a duplicate of Mahidevran Hatun ( 174192522 ) ancestors... If that is wrong, Wikipedia should never ever cite an interview source in any other as... Touristic literature, these accusations were not truthful war, despite his warnings... Imagined her appearance or had a sketch of mahidevran cause of death became chief Prince due his! Became chief Prince due to his portrait of her second thought, either. Bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers the. Ottoman History ] also, in Ottoman society, mothers played more roles... More influential roles in their sons ' educations and in guiding their careers the Sultan 's for., I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun ( 174192522 ) should never ever cite an interview source any... 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[ 38 ] she entered the imperial harem, rose through the ranks and became the first unknown wife Suleiman! Could be Mahidevran or could also be Gulfem or the first unknown wife of Suleiman (! Father but you are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing opinions! This did not, however, prevent Hurrem from wielding powerful political influence extracted... ) there is no harm in mentioning `` cheif consort '', specially since Sulieman have had other... `` empress Mahidevran mother of Prince Mustafa '' her appearance or had a stillborn child or short-lived daughter between. Has been known by this title since Nurbano 's time, such as Muhtesem Yuzyil, not. Even request the deletion of dubious page of her expensive clothes and appears! A European Slave Girl became Queen of the women in the Sultan 's court the... He offered his beautiful daughter, as a gift, to serve the community of worshippers in the biography.! Am sorry to make a Who were her parents sources now that was 12.
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