A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. No special event meet and greet for high dollar donors. This is why I said above I dont think Driscoll should even be allowed to go on speaking engagements, sell Christian books, or anything involving Christianity. There could be some better teaching on this but too many appear to receive their teaching from celebrity pastors who then take advantage of them. I simply offer another perspective. (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. Im not saying that I don't believe anyone, I really just want to learn the other side of this argument. Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. Obviously, I disagree with Lindell on the upcoming vote. Theres a persistent rumor that hes going to bring his show here to Phoenix. THANK YOU! -Katelyn If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. I think that explains a lot of it. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! Pastor Lindell invited disgraced misogynistic megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll to speak at James River Assembly while Driscoll was in the midst of a sexual harassment and bullying scandal in his home church. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, and that other pastor has a history of patterns of behavior and teachings that are destructive it is wise to ask pastor 1 if he has checked him out before he promotes him. People who are not religious, like me, are generally skeptical of religious institutions and their goals. He could continue the stance that we could not leave because we were under discipline and offend the large donor, or he could let us leave in peace and not offend the donor. . Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. Is there a third way that I have overlooked? James River Church responds to complaints about crowded, unmasked - KY3 I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility Thats certainly how Driscoll has handled things. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. Or there are people who were sexually abused by Uncle so and so who have forgiven him, and perhaps the man has done his time, but their forgiveness does not mean that they would ever allow their children in the same room with him. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. You sure would think so, but to quote H.L. Thats an interesting thought. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. In their case, they just use Jesus as marketing tool to sell their own image.It is not like they have not had access to truth. I only write the truth about Gateway in order to warn others, never to discourage anyone. one passenger died. i found it impossible to take advantage of people, i found that if i hurt someone even unententionally i couldnt sleep until i made it right. Edit: Thank you to everyone who commented. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. The Washington Post published the following headline last Sunday: Controversial preacher Mark Driscoll stripped from megachurch Hillsong conference lineup link. Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? Pokin has been at the paper three years and over the course of his career has covered just about everything from courts and cops to features and fitness. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. He faces re-election April 7. saul walks onto the stage of history. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. Did nefarious conspirators plagiarize his books, hire Result Source and use his evil twin again to go with his wife to meet with his agents to put that $210,000 manipulation in place, all behind the real MDs back? mode. years ago when non denoms were pentecostal and full gospelit seemed they were trying to get back to the Jesus of the bible, the Living Jesus. Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. I saw many warnings but there seemed to be some explanation for most of it. or barred from the league for having too many technichal fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct and yelling at the referees for too many seasons. Is this similar to Radical Chic? I also have recently spoken to another ministry leader involved in orphan care in Africa. Why is Guidepost Solutions now involved? God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. It was especially appropriate to hear last night since our current sermon series is on the topic of Worship. I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. May the Lord bless our search for da truth, and grant us mucho wisdom. ++++++++++++++++. Another aspect of the way I approach this is to consider where the burden of proof lies. arrogant, a lover of money, your comments are great. i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. Its kind of like that movie Winters Bone where the communities are closed to a fault. What I saw was the 2 verses that I had typed on a 35 card and tacked to my bulletin board. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. James River Church - Leadership not always what they portray According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. She was warned not to work with Agathos. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 And we in the real world of Jobs & Lives have to deal with the resulting Speshul Little Snowflakes. His statement is factually incorrect. Dont forget his church plant was asked to leave my kids school at the time. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. Im so used to the megas Velcro bars where they only care about you if they can slap some Velcro on you to make you come back so you can become a tithe payer. Hi Nancy, I am a graduate from Sydney and I just want to say thank you so very much for making Mercy a possibility for girls like myself to be able to go to here in Australia, it has truly saved my life and given me a future. The reason why I answered like that is because most of this stuff goes on because the pew sitters are not actively involved in the church operatons and are not demanding openess and transparancy of staff and leaders. The first time, it was shocking. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. Association of Related Churches @ Bridget: It refers to protecting the King of Israel from physical harm, not preventing people from telling the truth. and that it is ok to debate that point in public. Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. This is not a measure of faith. It was because of a backfire in strategy by then executive pastors Jamie Munson and Scott Thomas, who handled my discipline case. They did not want us to leave. . Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? He is a draw. How much do James River Church employees make? And i honestly had no idea that that phrase was in there. There was a box for Guest Services. News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. Otherwise, quit calling those 40 pastors and all those victims liars. They worked hard to get where they are and make the assocations that would help them. The church had 15 locations in five states. pic.twitter.com/FwaVnYEZIi. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. i have met people that have told me that they went to gateway (and other churches that are similar) but no longer do without ever saying why. The worship leaders laugh about it. when mercy ministries was investigated at hillsong amazingly the leader Nancy Acorn opened up shop in the u.s. and has many supporters among the christian circuit But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. In February of 2007, Mark Driscoll preached a sermon that included raising funds for Agathos. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. If, as a teacher, you realise that you hate students, you must give up your job and find something else. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. I asked where he got such information. And Lindell knows none of that is because of him. Did that get anywhere close to answering your question? Just show-biz. Open Discussion Page. (we want to prop mark up so he can do it himself), Mark says: Whats worse, total lack of good character. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. We are dedicated to making a difference in the lives of people through relevant teaching, heartfelt worship, and amazing kids & youth programs. But they dont work unless everybody actually sticks to them faithfully without exception, Collinssaid. What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? he smiles and there is love in his heart. How can they do that? Highlights - Stronger Men's Conference 2023 I cannot respect or support these men knowing that they revere such a man as a pastor. I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. Even if youre looking at Christianity from a strictly business like mindset, I dont see how its good marketing or profitable to do the sexist shtick. In case this was not a rhetorical question, the correct answer is entertainment. The carpet was worn. I have met Pastor Lindell once, months ago. Lindell then got personal with me. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Church membership requires showing your W-2 and mandatory tithe Working at James River is never be boring because of the mission that you are pursuing and the amazing things that you get to be a part of. People think that Christians want filled pews and big churches, most do, i strongly disagree with that. vinegar is disinfectant for wiping yourself. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. Even a brief check on MD online will turn up 67 billion pages with examples of his vulgar or obnoxious and bullying behavior, including several blogs by ex Mars Hill members. Did he write (with $200k ResultSource juice job) a Best-Seller on His Humility (chuckle chuckle)? I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. Che was tots adorbs. How about the demon trials? GW has a lot of bad stuff they are covering up. There are some Calvinists who go in the opposite direction and are very humbled by their monergistic view of salvation. James River Church is a multi-site church that exists to impact the lives of people through relevant teaching,. Meanwhile, Mark Driscoll was preparing to deliver his sermon at James River Church, an Assemblies of God megachurch located in the "Show Me State" (Missouri). Anyone who invites Driscoll without knowing his background also displays no judgement. Come on Lindell, Morris, Kellogg and Johnston. CCHD is extremely concerned about the health and well-being of all our community members and particularly those who attended the high-capacity event over the weekend. I dont beleive that for a moment. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. Right now i am in the second week of trying to help sort out a custody battle between two very wonderful young people. This is what the giving unit is looking for, not God. At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. Its the same game he has played. He returned to Maryland in March 1965, when he was assigned to an Assembly of God church in Cresaptown, just south of Cumberland. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. Watch LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm, and 7pm as well as every Wednesday at 7pm. "Although I don't think I'm going to 'love' this column.". Thats why every post they make against corrupt churches matters. I am someone special, like Jesus and Paul. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. The SGM defenders used the no criminal charges aspect of innocence, too, when it came to CJ. . some have suffered unjustly. But he was not still throwing men and women (!) The worst thing in the world right now for Chandler is that Mark is in making the Christian news cycle. Ever heard a sermon about Slaying your giants? yelling at the referees for too many seasons. (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. I never thought of that but that certainly might be the case. You cant speak in tongues? I think it should lie with the one who broke the trust in the first place. He was a mass murdering thug. My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. Pokin Around: 'Cussing pastor' to preach at James River Church Why would anyone seek to admire and celebrate a man who plotted to kill millions of innocent American civilians? If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. It genuinely didnt occur to me that he was just a good, decent man who might care about Gods children regardless of their zip code. I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. was paul asking for forgiveness? What Mark Driscoll Told Brian Houston at Hillsong Conference (updated) They will also show several very slickly produced commercials that feature smiling, giddy, laughing people all celebrating together. Prayer Requests As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. Return to homepage. We hunkered down and prepared ourselves for the impact of Mark Driscolls threat. I think many. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. To learn more, visit ja. I have heard Driscoll in person.. (See screen shot from the church website. Youre right. :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. (I saw a guy do this on a live stage in England once, on a YouTube video. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. . Does it lie with Driscoll/Chandler or does it lie with the people whom they want to trust them? ++++++++++++++++++. CCHD encourages individuals who were present at the high-capacity event over the weekend to monitor for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14-days from the event date and seek medical attention if symptoms develop., Church officials defended themselves in a statement issued to KYTV-KSPR, noting that despite what the images show, we take seriously the safety and health of those who attend our services.. *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). I think it is perfectly ok to say some people are toxic and avoid them for safety and mental health reasons. Because 12 years ago Walter Salles made an awesome movie about him called The Motorcycle Diaries starring the gentle heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal as Che. Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? CCHD has been in contact with the City of Ozark, where the venue is located and where there is a current masking ordinance in place. I wouldnt want to walk in his shoes and succumb to the large amount of pride he exhibits, what an empty way to live. Mark is playing the victim. I asked the mayor, specifically, how he will vote on the matter April 7. It is all choreographed and it works! Also, I received another great message from one of our Australia graduates thought this would bless you too There is no glorifying God in any of that. In Driscolls case he didnt even offer up the grudging apology specifically for the lives he ruined, the corruption, or the abuse of those at Mars Hill. https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. The worship leaders are all carefully coached and choreographed on how to appear more worshipful and fake their collective ecstatic elation over being one with their maker. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. Weve got enough local crazy around here, we dont need Mark Driscoll and his He-Man Woman-Hating Circus. Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. Whatever is going through Marks head, he is bent on getting people to listen to him again and to be heard. I agree with you there, but I wonder, how popular is this hyper macho brand of Christianity anymore? Except we now know Mark didnt actually write he books he used ghost writers and plagiarized, but minor details, an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. In 2010, Outreach magazine listed James River as one of the fastest-growing churches in America. (if you heard anything on the internet its not true, mark scrubbed his site already so if its on the internet a bunch of liars wrote it) we dont want to shoot the wounded. Missouri has not limited attendance at houses of worship but has advised social distancing. i hope the same is happening to others who have been victims of spiritual abuse and church cult tactics. Its America and hes free to do that if he wishes, but its not proper, again, IMO. Same goes for singles. Or alcoholics working in a bar. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. And later did sort of brag about how beneficial it was to him in his spiritual life. Did you miss a tithe payment? I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. I would say he was a tyrannical charlatan that used people for his own purposes and claiming it was of Christ. If his values were disdained he would have a far better chance of turning away from the corruption that has engulfed his life so far. The true character of a man shows when you see how he treats those with less power who depend on him for his income. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. . Do these Pentecostal leaders believe that there is a doppelgnger out there who tied MD up in a basement then impersonated him, swearing and saying horrible things from the pulpit? Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. However, you are on to something with the radical chic concept. I read somewhere that the church that bought, I think, the main campus property has a female pastor. @ LT: By the way, what do you call a person who tells lies? Members are guests? However, with such a massive back door spanning 15 years, I still think more exiles should be speaking up for the good of the current and future naives. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. On the other hand though a lot of people obviously like the guy enormously and his business model for his church is pretty successful. They really believe that God has anointed the leaders to lead them. Location. . Some great insights there, Bob. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. . Dont give into his deception. CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? Some people believe that God put them there. no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. I think MDs desire to be on a stage, at this point, is a sure sign he should not be there. It was really bad, disastrous I might even say. And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. @ Bob M: . When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. He had simply accepted the rumors. i am going to get a can of alpha-wolf-away and spray out my apartment now. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. Remember how everyone always tells Muslims to denounce terrorism and extremism? Internet users are also shielded from much of GW reality. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. . Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. He said it makes sense that the word "sin" would appear multiple times in a Biblical discussion of homosexuality. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it.