Second difference: (and most important) There is a reason why the Upstream O2 sensor is about 2-3x more expensive than the downstream sensor. Honestly, with narrow band sensors, it WILL work. Top wire: White heater (+) Got mine off amazon for around $52 shipped each (pre cats): I replaced both pre-cat O2 sensors on my 2003 330i for $250, and 30 minutes of my time including the $12 I paid for the 22mm O2 sensor slotted socket made by Lisle. $71.24 . A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. What's wrong with this picture? functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? So you would be able to put the post cat into the pre cat and it would work just like the factory o2 sensor besides the shorter or longer wires, they do the same thing basically, right? Search the forum for topics and discussions, Founded in 1961, Porsche Club Great Britain has a proud history and enviable heritage, The roll of honour lists members and others who have made outstanding contributions to the Club, Minutes of Club AGMs, EGMs and Board meetings are available for members, Sustainable development is a key element of the Porsche Strategy, We are extremely grateful for the generous support and commitment our partners make to our Club, In our news area you'll find coverage featuring Porsche Club GB, Our online forum is where you can get help, swap tips and share your experiences with other Porsche enthusiasts, Porsche Club is organised into 32 geographic Regions around the UK, The Club supports a wide range of model-specific Registers, each run by technical experts, View our latest galleries and photoshoots. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. They both function the same but are different enough that they cannot be swapped. In most cases, a vehicle with an inefficient catalytic converter will continue to run just fine. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. 325 e, i have 03 bmw 330xi and bank 2 oxigen sensor wire got burn out touching the four wire, i split it them but now get code p0031,p0600,p0051,p0037 and p0057 can anyone tell me how to check the voltage on those wire or the wiring schematic. o2 sensors where is bank 2 sensor 1. bjones. Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. If the exhaust gas mixture is too rich and there is too little oxygen in the exhaust, a signal is sent to the engines Electronic Control Unit (ECU) to decrease the amount of fuel added into the cylinder. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned. Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village Common sources of contamination include an excessively rich fuel mixture condition or oil blow-by in an older engine and engine coolant being burnt in the combustion chamber as a result of an engine gasket leak. The colours vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below. Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! If they have the same reading, then it indicates that the catalytic converter is damaged. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. This is called open loop mode. hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. New . Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. *At Pico we are always looking to improve our products. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Thank you so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop. . The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. 2nd wire: White heater (-) The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. JavaScript is disabled. Rough engine idle or misfiring: since the oxygen sensor output help control engine timing, combustion intervals and air to fuel ration, a faulty sensor can cause the vehicle to run rough. Connect a diagnostic tool, such as Delphis DS, select the correct vehicle and read the fault code(s). The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. Sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor. Automotive diagnostic scopes and equipment. Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. All three O2 sensors are intechangeable. OEM sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the gases both per/post catalyst. JavaScript is disabled. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. Bringing the BMW community together. This page could not be found. AU $129.99 + AU $45.00 postage . On the other side of the nernst cell, oxygen from the air outside the exhaust travels down the O2 sensor and makes contact. Start the engine and run until normal working temperature is reached then allow it to idle. Where is the downstream oxygen sensor located? Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? Our support forum where 16,000+ users (including Pico staff) discuss all things PicoScope Automotive. The time taken for a good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. please help. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. A constant high voltage output from the Zirconia shows that the engine is running constantly rich and is outside the ECM's adjusting range; whereas a low voltage indicates a lean or weak mixture. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions. Once unscrewed, discard the old sensor and replace with the new unit. All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. Use manufacturer data to identify the function of the pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensor circuits. Are the sensors indeed the same functionally? Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. However they often can skew the reading back to the DME. Too little fuel produces nitrogen-oxide pollutants. Both pre-cat sensors are identical. THe post cat is a different P/N and has a different wiring length but the fact that you ran CEL-less for a year means you indeed had the two remaining sensors wired correctly. If you decide to do this long term, you will experience problems. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. OEM numbers are obviously different. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. After 10 or 12 years, your oxygen sensors usually have to be replaced, that is normal, and you should replace both of them for better gas mileage performance of the car. It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. . carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. Do universal sensors work, well yes. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. 17539 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; sensor location. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. If you are going from Kingston to Cornwall, you are travelling downstream. spyderchat.com is not in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation. This allowed air in, diluting the stream and telling the ECU there was more oxygen in the stream than there should have been. 4th wire: Grey - earth. London Road, Moreton-in-Marsh $64.34 . A lambda sensor is also referred to as an Oxygen or O2 sensor, or a Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen (HEGO) sensor, and plays a very important role in control of exhaust emissions on a catalytic-equipped vehicle. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. What to look out for in a failing O2 sensor . I remember being taught differently in my first Bosch school BSC 1. Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. . A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. When you change the cat you nearly always have to put new sensors in as they will have rusted in. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Techincally all 4 O2 sensors are the same. Could I buy universal one, if not why? When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. Titania is also used in the manufacture of another type of lambda sensor that offers a faster switching time than the more common Zirconia sensor. The code P0420 can be caused by the catalyst, O2 sensors before and after the catalyst. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. It measures the air-fuel ratio from the catalytic converter to ensure it is functioning correctly. The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. - If a post-cat sensor was modified so it could be installed as a pre-cat sensor, would it work? Free shipping . View library content, magazines, workshop manuals and brochures, View all upcoming events including our Regions and Registers, Celebrating the finest Porsches within the Club, Hone your driving skills with exclusive tuition experiences, Find a recommended route near you or discover somewhere new, Eton Travel Group is an independently owned, full-service travel management company, Let Eton Travel Group help you with your future trips, Close and competitive championship in a friendly atmosphere, The Porsche Classic Boxster Cup race series, Competing against the clock in sprints and hillclimbs, Reviving the Pirelli Porsche Classic series, Browse a comprehensive range of Stuttgart's finest, Members can sell their Porsche through the Club's premium platform, Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner, Re: Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner. If you're electrically competent. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". The upstream oxygen sensor(s) are located below the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter. 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. Could I buy universal one, if not why? If required, apply the compounds to the new sensor before re-fitting. If this is your first visit, be sure to Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. Be careful not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area. The downstream oxygen sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer. Our collection of training videos, articles, guides and information on training courses. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide. On Bank 2 means it is at the engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. Too much fuel produces hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide. Read any fault codes using a diagnostic tool. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? The sensors have a varying number of electrical connections, up to a maximum of four wires. Required fields are marked *. We have good news! That's where my misconfusion came from. $80.43 . Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. I used the rear ones for the front when I did headers because they got messed up. Four-cylinder engines have two sensors, while V6 and V8 engines have four sensors. Come join the discussion about Bimmerfest events, production numbers, programming, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! You never never never get anything done at the dealer, NEVERRRRRR. Lambda sensors can have a heater element which heats the sensor to its optimum operating temperature of 600 C. The O2 sensor is part of the emissions system of your car that measures the proportion of oxygen in your engine. ,t.c.bypass,descreened m.a.f. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. Expecially since Pre-Cat is difficult to get at. Why am I still getting a P0420 code after I replaced my catalytic converter? These can all affect the oxygen sensors response characteristics, resulting in an extended response time or a shift in the sensor voltage curve and in the long run reduced sensor performance. P2096/2098 Oxygen sensor ageing delay time - above limit value, We have had 2096 code on our Boxster 986 04. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. Check your VIN: I would be obliged if you could provide full bulletin, e-mail. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. So why is the light still on? with unbelievable performance for the money. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. The purpose of this test is to investigate the operation of both pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensors. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Finally, run the ignition and confirm that the check engine light is extinguished, then perform a road test. Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. 2012 AUDI A6 (C7) 2.0L CAEB - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET-2 . I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Your email address will not be published. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . O2 Oxygen Sensor Kit For Mazda CX-7 2006-2012 2.3 Turbo Petrol (both sensors) New . Downstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Pipe Post-Cat. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Use an oscilloscope to check the signal at both idle and approx. In an effort to diagnose the faulty component I have been monitoring the pre and post cat O2 sensors using the graph displays on the Torque OBD2 app, but I need some help understanding the readings. It's been a while since I've checked into this.so hopefully, someone can back me up. This allows for best signal acquisition. Is the upstream and downstream O2 sensor the same? HPE Megadeath cam, UDP, SLP LT Headers, Corsa Catback, Textralia clutch kit, ACPT CF driveshaft, Billet shifter, SAP Spoiler, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://sincitygoats.com/gallery/v/aquariussuperman/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible. Picture Information. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. The difference is the wire length. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . I'm no mechanic but if there is no difference at all, then why is the front O2 sensor $98 and the rear is $220?? 2,500 rpm engine speed. Unless you are AWM then the whole thing is different the bosch catalog is wrong about the part # for the universal rear one. with 384 lbs of torque. and 399 r.w.h.p. i.e. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. You'll ruin sensors and have nothing to show for it. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time.